Yesterday i went trolling around “WordPress” and stumbled upon the blog of a fellow from Brazil. i believe he writes in Portugese and then translates into English. The minor syntax annoyances are a bit of a drag, but i gathered enough from his blog on a lecture by Rashi Khalidi at Columbia U. to have a dialogue with http://viniciuswerneck.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/a-lecture-by-rashid-khalidi/ about the Palestinian v. Israel conflict.
Below is a copy of the last comment i made in the exchange:
“In the time just prior to 1948, the land of “Palestine” was occupied by the British. They were overseeing and keeping the peace in that land for many years. There were Jews, Muslims and Christians all living in the land.
After WWII the British petitioned the U.N. to give over sovereign rule to a small portion of the Palestinian land for a Jewish state and call it “Israel”. Surely, you can understand the sentiment of that act after the treatment of the Jews by both the Germans and the Russians. The surrounding neighbors of the Palestinian land; Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, et al. thought this was a very bad idea.
So much so that they joined forces to attack “Israel” were it to be formed. This coalition of Muslim countries advised the muslims living in Palestine to vacate the premises or else risk getting caught up in the carnage of clearing the land of Jews “from the river to the sea”.
Those who left chose sides…and chose poorly. The U.N. and U.S. sanctioned government of Isreal routed the invaders and in the process took more land to ensure greater security (the spoils of war). The muslim population that left the area were not permitted to return. They were considered enemies of the Jewish state. The muslims that stayed were not only allowed to stay, but were given full citizenship in the new Israel.
The “Palestinians” living in the desert and in West Jerusalem are suffering not so much at the hands of the Jews, but at the hands of their own leaders. The U.S. and its allies have given billions of dollars to the PLO and its representatives over the past 60 years for infrastructure and investment in the areas they currently occupy only to have it stolen and squandered by these “leaders” (Arafat et al).
They have been kept poor and destitute for political purposes by their own people so that the conflict continues until they get their way!!
People like yourself are well meaning but easily led astray by images and propaganda. Why do you think the Palestinians continue to reject a two state solution? Listen the the speeches given by their own leaders (both political and religious), the only solution for them is the obliteration of Isreal. Don’t be deceived!
There’s plenty of motive throughout the muslim world for the destruction of Isreal. Given the opportunity {and the means} they will try.
Ask yourself this: Why do the leaders and voices of the people of countries that hate the U.S. (even before Bush) and Isreal love Obama so much?
When the world loves or hates you it should give you pause.”
i should add further that this is a condensed, abbridged version of the genesis of the present chapter of the ongoing sibling rivalry between the son of Sarah and the son of Hagar. If you are going to choose sides, choose wisely.
That is a pretty good analysis from what I know. Having been to Israel several times I can assure you that there are differences to this day between the Arab Israeli’s and those that are Jewish.
Want a real eye opener though? Take a look at the Israeli’s of Arab decent, and then compare them to other Arabs such as Palestinians. It’s like three separate cultures living side by side, and none of them truly getting along with any of the others.
some great history thoughts there G-man! It’s always good to hear it from another perspective from the one we so one sidingly get from the news.
I’d like to offer this exercise in thinking about the conflict from a different perspective.
First off, we have to leave out religion. Maybe we’re right and maybe we’re not. But the rest of the world thinks not, so it’s begging the question to point to scripture and say “see, it says we get the land right here.”
Imagine that there was some genocidal maniac in Canada who layed out his plans for killing everybody but red-headed people, and decided he’d begin with the Native Americans.
For years, the whole world does nothing. The maniac kills off a large number of Native Americans. The Native Americans say “Back when we actually owned Massachusetts, these things never happened.”
Then countries from the other side of the world step in. They agree. They unilaterally decide that the Native Americans deserve the land they once had back. They don’t meaningfully involve our government in the process. They relocate the Native Americans. They put more money into this new country of Nativeamerican-isreal than any country in the world. When we try to get our land back they kick the crap out of us and take a bunch more land.
Leaders of the movement to get Massachusetts back reside in an apartment. The Native Americans use the missiles sent from the other side of the world to kill them. Dozens of innocents die, including babies. The president of the U.S. declares this “acceptable”
I’m far from thinking Arafats a good guy. I can only imagine what the holocaust would do to a group, especially after centuries of anti-semitism. But I don’t think we can underestimate the fact that countries from the other side of the world came in and made some unilateral decisions, that Israel’s military is propped up by the U.S., and Israel’s way of doing warfare is far from pretty.
Thanks for the perspective Jeff. i’ve been encouraged in the past to think of the conflict in a manner which you’ve described. However, there are a few questionable corrolations in your narrative.
A) MA is populated by Europeans, Native Americans, and Mexicans. None of which are governing the place with any clear provincial separations. They’re being governed by the Chinese.
B) It isn’t the entire state of MA, but Worcester county that’s given to the NA (Native Americans) to Govern.
C) The European/MA’s are told by the Vermonters, Maniacs, and New Yorkers to get out of Worcester County so they can push the NA’s into the harbor.
D) The NA’s successfully defend their new government with the help of the Chinese coalition and tell those who sided with the Maniac coalition that they aren’t welcome to return to Worcester County.
It’s really the Maniac coalition and their genocidal Canadian tendencies that are fueling the conflict. The original deal was a compromise that could have worked fine without the bigotry. It’s the bigotry toward the NA’s that’s preventing MA from being settled peacefully and productively outside of Worcester County. It’s a conflict of “principle”.
E) The NA’s weren’t the driving force behind getting Worcester County back. It was actually sympathetic Chinese working on the NA’s behalf long before the genocidal Canadian began his purge. The genocide simply made their case.
For me, i can’t separate out what the Bible says about these two factions. It is the source book that establishes the history template. Both sides agree that this is a “family” dispute. The question that may never be answered well enough for the world is, “who is the legitimate heir?”.
All i know is that the sons of Isaac want to be left alone, and the sons of Ishmeal want to cut off Isaac’s head. Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, the story continues and will until God settles it. In the mean time, what sort of peaceful solution do you suggest?